Intimations of Creativity | Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman | The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast – S4E31

This episode was recorded on April 13th 2021

On this Season 4, Episode 31 of the Jordan Peterson Podcast, Jordan is joined by Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman. Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman is a cognitive scientist exploring the limits of human potential. He hosts the very popular podcast ‘The Psychology Podcast’. He is an author, editor, and co-editor of nine books including his newest ‘Transcend: The New Science of Self Actualization’.

Dr. Kaufman and Jordan discussed cognitive science, behavioral study, and Humanism. They also touched on many points including IQ. tests, personality traits, aggression in hierarchy, dating intelligence, self-actualization, long-form media, and much more.

Find more Scott Kaufman on his website, in his books, and on his podcast show The Psychology Podcast

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast can be found at

[0:00] Intro
[0:18] Jordan introduces this episodes guest, Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, an expert in cognitive science research
[3:00] Starting things off by looking at the combination of cognitive science and the humanist tradition coming together in Dr. Kaufman’s new book ‘Transcend’
[6:30] Kaufman’s experience studying IQ and intelligence in great depth
[13:00] After mastering the psychometric approach to intelligence, Dr. Kaufman continued new studies with Dr. Robert Sternberg looking at multiple types of intelligence
[20:30] Jordan outlines the difficulty in separating different types of intelligence completely the standard IQ measurement
[24:00] Dr. Kaufman acknowledges the general accuracy of the IQ test, but also brings up some of the limitations that have been found with the IQ and similar tests
[30:30] The linkage between an individual’s openness to experience and transcend mystical experiences such as taking mushrooms. Jordan draws a correlation between openness and the ability to intuit multiple personalities
[36:00] Postulating on human’s astonishing ability for mimicry. Exploring the instincts that might drive mimicry as an adaptation mechanism
[40:00] Investigation of openness’s effect on political viewpoint. Personality is a highly accurate determining factor
[46:00] Circling back to the topic of Humanism
[50:00] Dr. Kaufman is updating and clarifying Maslow with his new book
[1:00:00] Mapping different self-actualization character traits onto The Big Five,. The Big Five personality traits are extraversion, agreeableness, openness, conscientiousness, and neuroticism
[1:06:30] Does increased aggression lead to stable human societal hierarchies? Jordan asserts this is absolutely not the case
[1:10:30] Dr. Kaufman’s book, ‘Dating Intelligence Unleashed’. Jordan and Scott discuss mating patterns in men and women
[1:21:30] Sex differences towards abuse of power by individuals high in the social hierarchy. Getting into the topics of mentorship and transcendence
[1:29:00] The transition from naivety, to cynicism, to courage. How does a compassionate person committed to truth deal with the power games that play out in conversation?
[1:39:30] Practicing attention to what is and not thinking/interpreting but observing truth unfold as an essential learned skill
[1:45:00] Scott talks about his podcast and long-form type media, changes to learning and universities coming in the future
[1:59:30] Wrapping up the show



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