Malice, or the Establishment? | Michael Malice | The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast – S4: E30

On Season 4 Episode 30 of the Jordan Peterson Podcast, Jordan Peterson is joined by Michael Malice.

Michael Malice is a New York City-based author, podcaster, columnist, and media personality. He is a champion and proponent of free speech, anarchy, and many other non-mainstream ideals.

Find more of Michael Malice on Twitter @michaelmalice, on his Youtube Channel Michael Malice, and check out his books

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast can be found at

[00:00] Intro
[0:18] Jordan introduces this episode’s guest Michael Malice, an online personality and author with a quick wit and sharp sometimes abrasive sense of humor.
[2:00] Jordan selects Michael’s book the New Right, and specifically 4chan, as the discussion starter for the show
[5:30] Discussing the changing nature and cost of voicing one’s true opinion to the world
[9:30] The specific type of testing “trolling” of established authoritative institutions. Michael admits that everyone makes mistakes from time to time even the media, but it’s how you handle the mistake (covering it up or admitting to the error) that makes the distinction in how he views media institutions
[12:30] Malice outlines the specifics of 4chan for those who may not be familiar with the platform.
[17:00] What about 4chan made it such a hospitable place for the New Right as Michael calls them. Michael defines what he views “trolling” to be.
[21:30] Jordan comments that the extreme contempt he sees coming from the Left for average working-class people and to some degree the downtrodden of society. Michael explains how he thinks Trump was able to win these people over when they felt abandoned by the democratic party
[32:00] Jordan digs into memes, looking at examples from his own experience being meme’d many times
[40:30] Legacy media is burning out so what is next? Examining the positives and drawbacks of the network TV format.
[52:00] Talking about Michael’s more anarchical views of America contrasted with Jordans hesitations to complete fragmentation and separation of the two more dichotomous types of individuals in western society, being the conservative and the liberal.
[1:00:00] Playing “games” cooperating with different viewpoints to keep the country functioning
[1:05:30] Micheal describes his estimate of who the elite are. Jordan plays the role of a defender of the patriarchy to counter. Michael outlines one of his core premises that he doesn’t want others to tell him what he should inherently value.
[1:20:30] The two debaters circle back to the engaging aspects of podcast format
[1:25:30] Jordan revisits and tries to sum up where he feels Michaels distaste for established powers stems from.
[1:29:30] Malice asks Jordan if he has engaged on 4chan. Michael continues to make his point that structure and corruption can not be separated from institutions. Both comment on giving people the encouragement to be a better version of themself to strive towards
[1:36:20] Michael’s issue with the deification of the intellectual class in all aspects. Jordan gives his assessment of his time at Harvard and the people there, in the ’90s at least. They continue exploring differing views on inherent corruption in politics.
[1:51:00] The marriage of truth and humor, Malice gives an example from his book Dear Reader: The North Korea Book. Looking at the satire in the movie The Death of Stalin
[2:03:00] Jordan responds on the importance of staying on the right side of funny
[2:09:00] Wrapping up the show, one last question from Michael

Visit to view more information about Jordan, his books, lectures, social media, blog posts, and more.



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